25 Sept 2020

Once again I'm frustrated with Angelic Pretty

This time, however, the frustration is with the second hand market, not with what AP themselves are doing. I have come to terms with the fact that AP have opted to stick to a handful of cuts that either don’t fit or don’t flatter me, as well as with their design choices. It’s been nice to not feel like every one of their releases is coming for my wallet and be able to dedicate my money elsewhere. And judging by what’s happening on the second hand market, I’m probably not the only one. This will be a ranty post, so buckle up, grab a drink and enjoy the ride.
 

Traditional sweet lolita, like the kind that Angelic Pretty was releasing between around 2008 and 2014-ish, has never really died down in popularity, though recently it has had somewhat of a comeback. It was apparent in the number of releases from Chinese brands that aimed for that style, as well as the made-to-order rereleases that Angelic Pretty themselves have been doing.

 

Just some of the recent Chinese releases that exude Big 2010 AP Sweet Energy.
From left to right these are by Walnut Deer & Shiny Two Cookies, CC Cat, and Lolita & Colitas.


This on its own is understandable. Sweet lolita is the most distinct of the three substyles, which continues to attract people, both newcomers to the fashion and those already in who may either remember those releases and/or who are exploring their sweet side. Angelic Pretty’s prints from that time are a delight to look at, and thanks to high quality materials used to produce them they are still in great condition. This in turn translates onto people continually wearing them, regardless of what trends may currently dominate in lolita fashion overall.

Moreover, the current world situation doesn’t leave much room for pastimes as they were at this time last year. As a result lolitas will either hibernate their frills or go all out when playing dress-up at home, which again drives the popular sweet lolita prints to the top of social media algorithms. Without much else to distract themselves with, people also turn to online shopping for some temporary comfort.

And that is where my frustration stems from. I’ve always been of the opinion that Lacemarket is fantastic for sellers, but less so for buyers. Over the years I’ve noticed Lacemarket sellers to have a tendency to want break even or even profit from their sales, ignoring that this isn’t how the second hand market works, certainly not all the time or for every release.

Recently, i.e. at least in the last 6 months when I’ve started paying attention, this has gone to new extremes. Older Angelic Pretty releases, often damaged or stained, are selling for literal hundreds as people enter serious bidding wars. Even some of the newer ones that still fit the look of the height of AP sweet popularity, like Diner Doll, are being listed with starting prices at 250% of the original retail price for a used piece (pre-sale price because I will never forget that this went fully on sale a mere month after I bought it). If you have anything from that era, however small, you could set the opening bid low and still come out with a hefty profit of around 100% of what you paid, especially if you yourself purchased it second hand.

 

Whachu doin' in the comp'ny of Honey Cake and CTP, Diner Doll? You're positively lost here!


I understand how supply and demand works. There is very clear demand for that kind of sweet lolita, that style of prints, those fabrics, those trims and details. There is also nothing wrong with matching your opening price to reflect the demand. But with each listing that circulates because of its crazy price or bidding history it seems like this isn’t about a simple supply and demand anymore. It feels that certain people list purely to profit because they saw how easy it could be. By doing so, and by people buying at those prices, lolitas themselves are driving prices of certain pieces up irrespective of whether the release is actually rare (I’ve again seen Diner Doll JSK listings marked as rare, which that print is anything but) or how sought after it may actually be.

Moreover, it feels like a lot of people are buying those listings and getting wrapped up in the bidding not because they have been looking for them for years (though those are out there too), but because of status. Owning AP has always been a sign of status, the more popular or rare the release that you owned, the more status you had. All the proof you need is in the fact that even after the re-release of Cats Tea Party, that print continued to sell for way above its retail price, even if a little lower than what it used to before the made-to-order.

Of course, that mentality isn’t present everywhere. People have commented that Facebook sales remain more reasonable, which I’m inclined to agree with. This could be because of the buy-it-now-only sales format there, but it could also be because people selling on Facebook aim to sell more locally first, whereas Lacemarket is by default open to a global audience (though not every seller will ship everywhere). The Japanese and Chinese second hand markets continue to follow their own trends, with slightly different pieces remaining popular and as such expensive or cheap. But the fact that it is still possible to find popular releases cheaply in Japan is leading to scalpers buying them to resell in the Western market. I’ve seen that happen on eBay, where it’s easy to spot dodgy sellers as they will often use photos from the Mercari/Fril listings they bought from themselves, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the same was happening on Lacemarket too.

All of this begs the following questions: is it just the pandemic driving those sales, as people have nothing better to do but shop or nothing worthwhile to save for like events? Or is it a sign that lolita fashion has grown too big in popularity and like so many niche hobbies before it, became victim to people seeking clout at the cost of those genuinely wanting to be a part of it? Is it a response to the Western community’s frustration with what Angelic Pretty is releasing currently (and if so, how come so many of these releases are still selling out like hotcakes, including on the AP Paris sites, which points to the fact that it’s not just the Chinese lolitas going for those releases)? Or is it a side effect of social media cultures that drives people to quick-win popularity, which gets them hooked on the likes, and then teaches lolitas that having the popular stuff is more valuable that having your own style?

Honestly, it’s probably a combination of all of the above. Whilst I occasionally get pangs of wanting to expand my own wardrobe’s pastel sweet side (mostly when I watch Tyler Willis’ Frock Talks), seeing the investment this would be right now stops me before I even realise that there aren’t that many releases that I’d genuinely like to own these days. I at least have the entirety of the rest of my wardrobe to play with - I can only imagine how disgruntled someone newer to the fashion must feel when they see auction after auction be snatched away from them because some people out there are willing to drive up the prices to insane amounts for items that previously sold for under retail.

 

There are some pastel AP pieces that I wouldn't mind owning. But I would mind spending my own money on. (And tbh, the AP dresses that I really gravitate the most towards are usually true tones or jewel tones.)

Thank you all for coming to this episode of A Lolita Shares Her Thoughts on This Bitter World. If anything within this post’s contents has upset you and you need help, please, seek out the comfort of your local lolita community and/or personal friends. When the council funding comes through, I will be sure to set up a formal anonymous support group for lolitas affected by the second hand market prices.

6 comments:

  1. As someone who has little interest in AP, this was an interesting read. In fact, it reminds me of a derailed thread on /cgl/ where someone was really concerned about (what that person believed to be) scalpers and where to draw the line (although you'd think it's pretty clear cut actually). Hope you don't mind me just throwing this out there even if it isn't particularly constructive.

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    1. Count your blessings that you have no interest in AP because right now those people are the real winners. I agree that generally spotting a scalper is pretty clear, but I think those who joined the fashion recently may have a harder time spotting a scaler when the sale is for older releases? What I mean is that we all know that scalpers get in on all of the latest releases and then on the same day post their sales on places like Mercari and Frill with at least double the price. But older second hand pieces do genuinely fluctuate in popularity as trends change, which means changes in prices. So whilst someone who has lived through the 2010-2012 Sweet AP Era will be able to tell at what price point the seller is just a scalper and asking way more than the dress is worth, because they would have seen it be popular in its heyday, then dip, then make a comeback, someone who's only joined the fashion in, say, 2018, probably won't. Especially people who have joined around 2018-ish and haven't been doing intensive research, as that is roughly when the 2020-2012 Sweet AP Era stuff started becoming popular again and rising in prices, so those people wouldn't know that something like Diner Doll (2016) went originally on sale or that Cotton Candy Shop (2015), by being a lucky pack, was once everywhere for $100-120 for the set. So I can see why people would be arguing over or discussing where is the boundary between "this is genuinely that popular and the prices have skyrocketed" and "this is now scalper territory".

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  2. I was surprised by pastel sweet becoming so popular again, I owned some things that might have gotten me more money if I sold it now but tbh that is not how I like to think. If I buy things cheap I sell it cheap too (not higher than I paid), although with the bidding system it makes people bid more. This is also why the last years I put things on the local market first. I don't think it's a very healthy second-hand market indeed worldwide. I know this is how a market works but it makes be a bit sad.

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    1. I think the auction format plays a big part here. Because if you just want the dress to sell and you know the print is popular, but set a reasonable price (retail or a little more/less depending on condition and how popular the print is), then it will sell with a Buy It Now only option. But the auction enables people to basically fight each other for the stuff and in their "must have this" frenzy they go to the extremes. Which obviously can't happen on Facebook sales or apps like Mercari, Frill or even Depop etc., because those are exclusive Buy It Now. I understand that with something smaller, let's say a ring, if you don't know how to price it, doing an auction with a low opening bid and letting people decide how much it's worth can be good, especially if there are very few or no past listings for this. But we all know how much the dresses cost at retail price and roughly how popular they are now (so whether they should sell at, below or above retail price for second hand ones), so normalising them selling for $600+ is just greed.

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  3. In Tyler's frock talks it has been interesting to hear her thoughts on how the quality and construction of current AP releases compares to their older releases and the big increase in cost of secondhand OTT pieces.
    I don't wear pastel sweet and don't fit into many of their cuts, but for the pieces I do like the near-instantaneous selling out of new releases (Rose Tea Garden) and the outrageous prices of secondhand (Honey Cake is cute but not worth $500+ to me) has caused me to have little interest in Angelic Pretty because they don't seem attainable -though as you said many people want AP for the status symbol.
    It is interesting how on Lacemarket many sellers do have that mentality of making back the money the spent or making a profit on the item when that is not how you would expect the secondhand market to work. I do think status and scalpers are part of the reason of the costs of secondhand Angelic Pretty. My favorite brand is Meta, and while they do have some sweeter prints they don't have the iconic status of AP. Most of the Meta pieces I've seen on LM are well under their retail price (by at least 30-50% which is what one would expect for good condition secondhand).

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    1. Honestly, people with little to no interest in Angelic Pretty are the real winners right now.
      To me Lacemarket sellers, if not Western lolitas in general, have always had that element of trying to at least break even on their purchase. And if you bought something cheaply, then by trying to break even you may not be creating that much of an imbalance. However, if you bought something brand new from brand (I keep going back to Diner Doll as an example because it's one I'm all too familiar with) that wasn't made in limited quantities and isn't really that sought after, then yeah, status and scalpers affect the prices far more than what the dress is actually worth.
      The good thing with Meta (and they are my favourite brand too) is that whilst their pieces are usually selling for less, the ones that are really sought after don't pop up that much. As one of my friends, another Meta stan, has said: people who like Meta buy to keep. This generally doesn't affect the non-printed releases or the lucky pack skirts, of which you will find plenty at or around the 5k yen mark. But their Wa prints retain resale value and are at least retail price second hand (more if it's the Western market), while certain other prints or collaborations, or special releases are near impossible to find and you have to be quick to pounce on them if you want them (like the Meta x Pixa Toy Story Alien collab from LaForet's special Toy Story night or Secret Laboratory in green, or the collab with Kamen Rider - all of which are releases my friends and I have either spent years trying to get or are still looking for).

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