Whilst I didn’t envision myself returning to this topic, I
am going to talk about buying brand new
some more.
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| Photo by magicprincess707. |
In response to the poll on Lolita Amino about whether brands
should introduce sizes, I created another poll asking the community how often
they purchase Japanese brands new. Although at the time of writing both polls
are still ongoing, the results are already pretty interesting. To save on
writing, I put them into the two pie charts below.
*
* For reference, poll 1 results are out of 188 votes and
poll 2 out of 165 votes.
The first thing you notice is that while nearly 60% of
participating Lolita Amino users agree that brands should offer more sizes, over
2/3 of them only purchase brand new once a year or less. Now, I cannot stress
enough that this is a very simplistic comparison and as a piece of
research holds no reliable value. For one, poll no 1 assumes a common
definition of brand without specifying one, while poll no 2 separates brands by
country of origin. For another, poll no 1 focuses on clothing (because it
questions sizing) and poll no 2 is open to all purchases, clothing, accessory
or otherwise. Thirdly, although the polls are from the same platform, that
doesn’t mean they share exactly the same sample. Lastly, on their own neither
poll goes into details about the reasons (although some were given in the
comments) and it would also be interesting to analyse these results against the
users’ Lolita Amino rank or, better still, years actively wearing the fashion.
However, until an actual study of lolitas’ shopping habits
is carried out, let me use these two results for the sake of a slightly ranty commentary.
Assuming that the answers from Lolita Amino users reflect the overall trend of
the whole community (or at least of the Western community), this shows either
great ignorance on how business works or great sense of entitlement within the
community. On the one hand, lolitas expect brands like AP and Baby to cater to
their needs, such as size. On the other, that same lolita community only
purchases brand new items from Japanese makers once a year or even less often
than that. I almost want to write this in caps, but will resist and put it in a
separate paragraph for emphasis instead:
Regardless of what motivates your lack of brand purchases, no business will alter its stock or influence its future
releases based on a community 70% of whom hardly make direct purchases at all.
No, they will focus on regular customers. And at the moment the majority of those
are based in China and, you guessed it, don’t require different sizes.
Yes, when we talk about Angelic Pretty specifically, then
they do have some insight into Western market demands through their branches in
San Francisco and Paris. They are able to see which releases sell out during
preorders and which end up being sale stock, as well as look what kinds of cuts
are popular. The information they get from direct purchases from those two
branches (and let’s reinforce that: direct purchases!) is how they
gather market information which influences their decisions regarding future
releases and what Western lolitas want from them.
And let’s be quite objective here for a second: Angelic
Pretty already is doing more to accommodate a wider range of sizes (probably as
a result of feedback from their overseas branches, but that I can’t be certain
of). Between 2016 when AP Paris opened and now, there have been at least 25
releases of shirred tops (1 cutsew, the rest are either fully or partially
shirred blouses). There were also at least 16 releases of cutsew OPs, which
tend to be a little bit more forgiving thanks to the more stretchy nature of
the fabric. And while we may bemoan the high waist cuts, they often feature
full back shirring, which in turn can accommodate up to 100cm bust and usually
up to 85cm waist (not exactly a large plus size waist measurement, but thanks
to the higher seam placement it can fit more like an underbust, so as long as
your underbust/ribs fit that, you should be good to go).
The gist of it is (again) that if you want your favourite
brand to cater to you, you need to buy from them. Not own their stuff – that
will only get you flattery points at meet and greet with the designer –
actually put your literal money where your metaphorical mouth is and purchase
from them. You want more shirred OPs or skirts? Buy the one you like that was
just released. You want a lower waist JSK cut to come back? Buy that when you
see it! You want them to keep making fully shirred blouses? Frickin’ buy them!
You can send messages asking for more of this or that all you like, but it
holds no actual worth unless you (and a whole load of other people) actually
buy that later on. If you can’t afford to buy brand new items regularly, then
buy them whenever you can, by shopping during sales and saving for longer. Encourage
your friends to do the same, because the more of us buy from a brand, the clearer
our opinions and needs are heard. If you don’t see any main pieces you like and
still want to support the brand – buy their smaller bits: socks, wristcuffs,
jewellery, novelty items, whatever you can.
And if you genuinely can’t afford brand new purchases
and genuinely don’t like anything that’s being released,
and genuinely can’t fit into anything they release without alterations you’re not prepared to have done,
then at least don’t complain that your ‘favourite’ brand caters to all the nouveau riche standard size lolitas from China instead. That’s just how capitalist businesses works. And if all of the above is true of you, then the brand you complain about probably isn’t really your favourite.
and genuinely don’t like anything that’s being released,
and genuinely can’t fit into anything they release without alterations you’re not prepared to have done,
then at least don’t complain that your ‘favourite’ brand caters to all the nouveau riche standard size lolitas from China instead. That’s just how capitalist businesses works. And if all of the above is true of you, then the brand you complain about probably isn’t really your favourite.
Rant over. I wish you all a lovely day and promise to write
about Dublin as soon as I have more photographs to share with you.
This reminds me of the people who supposedly love independent shops but only ever shop at chains, and get upset when the independents end up closing down due to lack of profit/inability to compete with the large retailers.
ReplyDeletePeople like the idea of certain things being available but more often than not, aren't actually willing to support those things. Was it Btssb who for a short time actually created a plus size in certain releases but literally nobody ever bought those pieces so they stopped bothering? I think it was.
Something that bothers me from the perspective of a small business owner is that there are so many western brands who will make clothing for you in literally any size and specification, who have the potential to really grow and offer those fun border prints and high quality details the Japanese brands can, if only people would support them so they get to that stage. I did a quick google for other blog posts on this topic and the first one I found was somebody ranting that they can't get into lolita fashion because "Angelic Pretty will never fit me"... as though that's the only lolita brand worth purchasing from.
It's a complex topic and when you delve into it you realise that the lolita community's spending habits and (often rather entitled) views are quite peculiar to say the least.
That is actually sort of comical that some people had made a rant over the size of AP, because they can't fit it. It is sad since so many brands could possible fit them. I can't fit into AP, because they are short, but I never been into them, except a few releases, so it doesn't feel like a loss. But it is more a sign of that certain brand worshipping has gone out of propotions. Luckily it isn't longer that people would fry you for saying your favorite brand is certain tiny western indie brand, because japanese brand are supreme. I love Meta, but itsn't anywere near obession, I actually like my indie pieces more, because they are unique.
DeleteIt's exactly like this! I realise that I'm part of that problem with indie brands and am working towards changing that by shopping more from indie brands. It's a lot more appealing (and easier) to do that at events because it's normally the cost of postage that puts me off, however, I realise for how many of these smaller labels even my little purchase can make a big difference, so I do what I can.
DeleteThat's so true. Looking at the lolita newbies it often feels as if they've just dipped their toes, learnt that Angelic Pretty is a thing and decided that this is all there is to lolita fashion. Kind of like people who have little idea about Japan think that sushi is the alfa and omega of Japanese cuisine. I really like Lady Sloth, I feel like they're a great exxample of a brand that started small, mostly doing blouses, but are now doing print after print and they're all super popular amongst people. We don't know which Western indie brand will be the next one to do that - but they certainly won't be able to unless we buy their stuff! To a degree this whole thing seems like another side of the crowd mentality: big brands sell out fast and brands like AP are putting these extravagantly lavish tea parties in Shanghai, so I want some of that purely because I don't want to feel like I'm excluded rather than because I genuinely, really like it.
They definitely are peculiar. While I feel like they're not necessarily unique (I can imagine vintage afficionados having a similar kind of entitled view that only original vintage clothing matters and the modern reproductions aren't worth the hassle or money, even when they are stunning and faithful), when a community is this small, every little drama feels much bigger than it actually is. And if someone without any formal schooling in business theories can see that, then it really is that obvious. As much as I want to keep repeating that until every new lolita realises and understands it, I also have a great deal of sympathy and understanding for the veterans who have been shouting that for years before me and are now too fed up stuck in that loop with hardly anyone hearing it.
As one of those, who do buy a release from Japanese brand every year or less, it is not I don't want support them, my economy can't handle it as my current situation are, alone in an apartment is expensive and being student.
ReplyDeleteHowever I do support the brands carrying my size, at least to me, it doesn't make sense trying to squeeze into something, I never meant to be in. Advices like take corset lacing out and stretching fabric are another slow road to hell, as if people buy the items new, brand might falsely think that is no demand for a bigger sizes. I have to accept that I have to move buttons downs on straps on more less every release from brand/indiebrand, but unlike seam and lacing, the straps are made with that in mind.
That's what I'm saying: you don't buy from Japanese brands, but you also aren't complaining that they don't carry your size and shop with indie brands instead. Yours is a very healthy attitude to have because it keeps creative individuals in business, allowing them to thrive, whilst continuing with your own hobby. My rant was mostly aimed at that unfortunately vocal majority who will moan that AP doesn't fit them, but won't do anything helpful about it (either losing weight where possible or shopping with another brand that offers their size). It's true that with the largest brands even our purchases won't create the ideal scenario where every body shape and size will be accommodated - after all AP's biggest profit is from the Chinese market at the moment, so they are balancing their needs with all the other ones - but if someone can influence them with their custom, then I encourage them doing so.
DeleteIn my opinion the problem is that none of the japanese brands have ever released a truely plus-size dress (in my definition it's a dress that fits at least 110cm bust and 90cm waist comfortably without too-high waist seam). So I find it difficult to tell people to support the brand and buy their stuff when there is nothing to buy that fits plus-sized girls in the first place.
ReplyDeleteAnd also we don't know how much girls in Japan for example are buying per person. It's also possible that many japanese girls only buy 1-2 dresses brand new per year and most of their other stuff 2nd hand, but there are just so many girls in Japan wearing Lolita that it's still rentable for the brands.
I do want to mention though that Btssb did released a few full-shirring skirts recently and that there is also Maxicimam which has tons of plus-size stuff, and I happily bought from them brand-new, but otherwise I just can't buy other items from other brands, except full back shirring AP dresses, which they however rarely release.
What do you mean, none of the Japanese brands? What about Enchantlic Enchantilly and Atelier Pierrot? What about Millefleurs, Physical Drop and Triple Fortune? What about Meta, who still make fully shirred skirts, dresses and blouses? All of those consistently make clothing and hosiery that is very accommodating in size without compromising in design and are on top of Mam Maxicimam's Lovely Size range and on top of anything that BtSSB/AatP, AP and Innocent World may release. And that's *just* the Japanese brands and *just* those that are major enough to be recognised outside of Japan. And AP has been doing quite a lot of full back shirring pieces in the last two years - almost every one of their high waist cut JSKs has it. I wouldn't normally pay attention, however, one of my friends who will only fit full back shirring AP has pointed out to me how many of the releases from the last two years or so will work for her. Whether someone likes the design or not is another matter, but the fact is that it's still there.
DeleteIt could be that the Japanese lolitas are buying more second hand nowadays (can't blame them, they literally live in the same country as all those Closet Child branches). But this here is not a question of individual choices because individually, yeah, they might only buy once or twice a year - however, en masse, as a demographic, they probably still buy brand new more often than Western lolitas. This is why I said that it needs to be a whole load of people who buy something before a business can take notice of it instead of it seeming like a glitch in the Matrix. And with Japanese lolitas having both access to physical branches and cheaaper domestic shipping with none of the indirect costs, they do stand a chance of buying brand new more often. Probably still not as much as the Chinese, but potentially more than Western lolitas.
Yes it is true that those brands have full-shirred items, but most of their items are NOT truely plus-sized. For example the AP JSKs you mentioned, the waist seem is waaay too high for plus-sized girls, it ends in the middle of the bust (that's why I only buy the full back shirred OPs because the waist seam is lower). Also the Metamorphose fully shirred skirts are not that big like you think (they are smaller than the Btssb skirts and the elastic is very tight, I had to exchange it). Also the fully-shirred blouses are often too tight around the armholes and the neck. Also fully shirred dresses often look very unflattering with a big bust and make you look even bigger than you actually are. Just because some items are fully-shirred doesn't mean they are made with a plus-size girl in mind, or at least, with a western plus-size girl in mind.
DeleteBesides that I also bought from indie brands and had tailor made clothes, but most indie brands unfortunately don't have such a good quality, and also their designs and prints are sometimes questionable (in my opinion).
I agree that the market for western plus-size is not that big, but I just don't understand the argument that plus-sized girls girls should buy more clothes in order for the brand to notice them, when there are no plus-sized clothes in the first place? Maybe I don't understand what you meant.
No, you understood what I meant, I think you simply took it a little too much with the Japanese brands. My point is that if you want your favourite brand, whatever brand it may be, to carry on, then you should support them by buying from them directly. The polls talked specifically about Japanese brands because that's what's most coveted by lolitas and because it seems like every new lolita wants Angelic Pretty, but many are not willing to buy from them directly and then complain that AP is not doing more of this or that, catering to the Chinese instead. What I'm also trying to say is that if Angelic Pretty really, genuinely, absolutely is someone's favourite brand, but they also really, genuinely, absolutely cannot fit in their clothing, then that doesn't mean you can't support them. You can either shop for smaller bits from them (things like hair accessories, bags and novelty pieces are not restricted by size and other items, like jewellery, wrist cuffs and socks, will have plus-size/adjustable options) or you can alter those pieces (which I've seen many lolitas who actually love the brand do). And if THAT'S not something that a person is willing to do, then I seriously question whether Angelic Pretty really is their favourite brand. In other words, either be honest with yourself and the world about which brand really is your favourite or be prepared to put your money where your mouth is. I understand that finding lolita clothing when you're plus size is a challenge - this is why so many indie brands offering larger or custom sizing are popular. But from what I've seen in real life around myself, most of those who are plus size DO support those indie brands over AP or BtSSB and are very honest about both their expectations (they know that supporting a business with their money means more than just words) and about their preferences (most of their favourite brands are either UK-based indie ones, like Shinku Rose, or other Japanese labels, like Enchantlic Enchantilly or Atelier Pierrot). This is what my rant was about. I'm not trying to say that everyone must buy Angelic Pretty - I'm saying that everyone should aim to buy directly from their favourite brands, whatever that may be. Because even when you're not that brand's target size demographic, there are ways for you to support them, as well as to wear their clothing. Those may not be the budget or poverty-chan ways, but they are there and by focusing on buying fewer pieces less often you probably will do yourself a favour by building a wardrobe that you truly, 100% love and are happy with rather than succumbing to all those impulse buys.
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